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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 203 for the 8th of sep

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tember 2012 Richard Saunders here with

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you from a very young overcast and windy

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strong winds gale force winds gusty

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winds Sydney Australia on this week's

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show well more about Susie now you might

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remember I'll episode 200 in fact I read

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out day a report that i wrote for

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Australian skeptics about our adventures

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with the shoes e-band the Shu Zi Qi or

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Susie Q I one of these magic response

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you strap on your wrist and gives you

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more balanced strength flexibility

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mental power and unclamp seeeeee your

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blood apparently now at the same time I

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was chasing Susie in this country for

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the story and hopefully to test which

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they didn't do our colleagues in the UK

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the Merseyside skeptics society and

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don't forget to listen to skeptics with

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a que their podcast they were also

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trying to get Susie in the UK to come up

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and be tested but surprise surprise

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Susie have not stepped up to be tested

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to put their magical wristband to a

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simple test so the Merseyside skeptics

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went ahead and tested the band anyway so

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to kick off this week's show Michael

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Marshall from the Merseyside skeptics

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will read the press release accompanying

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their video and this has gone viral and

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the news has gone viral I'm so happy

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lots of news agencies around the world

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are covering the fact the Merseyside

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skeptics put Susie to a test and

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ironically even here in Australia it

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made the news which is ironic because in

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the press release they quote the work by

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Australian skeptics that there you go

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who cares who cares

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Susie Susie where are you come and be

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tested no all right that story coming up

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after that it's back to Tam Las Vegas

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now I said on last week's show we'd

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might have Brian Dunning or Ben Radford

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I've decided to put on an interview with

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Iran sir give instead our very own Iran

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sir give president of Australian

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skeptics and the occasional grain of

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salt right here on the skeptic zone now

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Iran has some news for us about his

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presidency of Australian skeptics so

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that's a bit of a scoop for the skeptic

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zone podcast coming up another tan

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interview by Maynard then to wrap up the

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show I interview Ben and Steve makin all

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the way from Edinburgh who were just

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visiting Sydney the other day and spoke

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at our sydney skeptics in the pub all

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about alternative medicine and their

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adventures in investigating and even

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trying alternative medicine so I have a

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nice chat with their meaner in the High

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Park which is the big park in the centre

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of Sydney about Edinburgh and what they

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get up to there and a little bit about

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that talk and then we catch up after the

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talk may not interviews been makin about

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what she thinks about skeptics and bub

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and how the talk went and then another

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newcomer to skeptics in the pub now

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before we start the show a few little

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messages visit w WC optics com au for a

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number of reasons but if you live in

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Sydney the skeptics dinner meeting is

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coming up at the end of sep tember

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September the 29th more details at the

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website now our friends and no Canberra

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tell me that there's an interesting

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public lecture coming up the WHA thurs

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guide to the periodic table well it

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sounds Iowa good one for budding

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scientists out there you can find out

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more about that lecture coming up on the

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fourteenth of September in the acct at

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the Australian National University by

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visiting billboard got a nu dot ed u dot

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au and clicking the calendar link and

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scrolling down to the 14th of sep tember

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also from Canberra I've heard word that

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there's a newly formed univ

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versity of Canberra skeptical society

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and well they're very nice sleeper

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invited me down for a barbecue I think I

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better take them up on that offer

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sometime barbecuing that sounds pretty

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good to find out more best thing to do

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is simply Google University of Canberra

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skeptical society they do have a

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facebook presence and one last thing

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before we get into the skeptic zone the

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James Randi Educational Foundation on

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their online magazine Swift have

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published my account of the recent

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million dollar challenge at tam 2012 tam

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tam tam in Las Vegas where I helped take

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part in testing one Andrew needles and

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his directive SR power band you can read

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my report and see the video now online

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at Randy dot org thank you to everybody

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who was involved with that too and now

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it's time for me to run downstairs

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bypassed the fridge entirely open the

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pantry get out the ingredients for

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lentil soup cook that and enjoy the

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sport wristband claims nonsensical

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technobabble says consumer rights group

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sports performance technology

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manufacturers shoes Ichi came under fire

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today after product tests revealed their

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performance enhancing wristband to be

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ineffective the 60-pound wristband

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spotted by dancing and I star jennifer

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ellison on the ITV show earlier in the

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year is claimed to contain a proprietary

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chip programmed to resonate with blood

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cells natural frequencies causing blood

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cells to separate a nun clump cleanse

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which have been dismissed as meaningless

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technobabble by the Merseyside skeptic

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society in a video released today the

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group enlisted assembly professional

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rugby player to pit the real shoes eve

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and against an identical the activated

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band despite marketing claims that the

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product is a player's performance the

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demonstration showed that when a player

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is unsure which band he's wearing the

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60-pound product makes no discernible

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difference Michael Marshall verzi vice

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president of the Merseyside skeptics

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Society explained if the claims shoes

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you make about their product are true

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we'd expect to see a marked improvement

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in the performance of our athlete when

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wearing the real band that there was no

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clear difference suggests to us what we

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suspected all along the bands are little

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more than an expensive sports fad backed

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up by a raft of claims which may sound

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like science but are actually

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nonsensical technobabble during the test

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the player took 50 kicks wearing the

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shoes he flat black sports bracelet and

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50 wearing identical bracelet with the

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chip removed throughout the test neither

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player nor the testers knew which band

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was which in order to ensure accuracy

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and remove buyers after 100 kicks the

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results showed no significant difference

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between the Sham band and the real band

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casting severe doubt over the company's

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claims that the chip stimulates the

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separation of blood cells in a person's

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body which can help increase blood cell

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circulation the video comes in the wake

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of consumer action in Australia where

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shoes these products have been

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challenged resulting in the company

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withdrawing their trade from the country

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after an investigation by the Australian

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skeptics shoes were offered a hundred

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thousand dollars to prove their product

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worked a challenge they initially

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accepted for later back tracking the

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latest test was carried out by the

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Merseyside skeptics society after

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to work with Suzy directly stalled we

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originally approached using in June

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voicing our concerns at first there

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seemed keen to offer us proof that their

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products were anything more than another

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expensive sports fat said Marshall when

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shoes he stopped returning our emails

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and calls we decided to test their

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bracelet for ourselves and it's fair to

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say the results didn't surprise us too

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much if shoes he still believed their

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product really works we'd love to see

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their evidence and I'd certainly be

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happy to work with him in conducting

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another test otherwise consumers should

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be aware that these products simply

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don't live up to the marketing hype yeah

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aight guys i was talking to Richard

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solvency today all right he said if we

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record a trailer for our podcast

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skeptics with a que he'd play it on

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there unless you're nice nice of him

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that's very generous it's pretty good

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i'm not sure what we could do though I

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mean well suppose you tell people shows

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about but it's basically this yeah but

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yeah but you know we talk about science

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and skepticism and things that's that's

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true as fuzzier you mentioned the

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website address what merseyside skeptics

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talk about UK yeah yeah just like

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searches night UN's oh and then we could

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end with like a big song like the

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skeptics with okay god no no no no don't

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don't do that here's may not spooky

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action

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well we're in the back room now and I'll

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tell you what all the the backroom

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things are here which means nothing

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basically the rooms pretty much empty

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like my head I've been talking to so

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many people here at tam but not this guy

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here who we got here hi it's Iran he's

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here and he's wearing his pink shirt is

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this some sort of in celebration of

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something celebrating the fact that the

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pink shirt was at the top of the pile

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now look now look and as you can tell

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I've made an effort with my wardrobe

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here most of you skeptic to just been

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wearing the same thing every day day in

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day out even dr. rachy up at me I'm

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three outfits a day and I must admit I

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got this on because I got tired of

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wearing shirts that look like I you know

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like I'm in college I'm be too old for

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that I suppose from t-shirts with

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slogans on them yes and but there have

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been some good slogans here have you

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seen some t-shirts or some slogan

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tonight's a good one I like the ones

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that have some some science on them

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there was there's a t-shirt that that's

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quite well known that shows the graph of

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what's predicted weather you know

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background radiation from the big band

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where that's supposed to be and it shows

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what the prediction was and where it

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actually is in under it it says science

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it works which is which is great and

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there's now a similar one for the Higgs

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boson where it was predicted to be and

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he chose the graph for where it actually

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is so I like these kind of shirts I

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haven't seen any particularly funny ones

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this time but look I like all the photos

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of carl sagan on the shirts to it

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looking pretty cool yeah I would like

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that but again photos and things brought

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it'll probably do not go for that now

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you were very inspired by the keynote

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talk yesterday I thought I'm not sure it

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was you know did Jamy Ian Swiss yeah

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Jamie and Swiss I thought he's talked

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you know I came out of the room and I

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said this is the best talk I've heard at

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am you know that's four times now three

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in vegas and one in Australia and then

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after a few minutes weren't thinking

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about even more I thought no this is

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actually the best talk about skepticism

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I've ever heard it was a combination of

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insightful passionate enthusiastic

273
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clever it was it was just inspiring this

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there's no other way to describe it i

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hope they'll put I spoke to DJ and I

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hope they'll put it online very very

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soon because I think people need to see

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it people within this skeptical movement

279
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need to see it because it addresses a

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lot of the issues because this has been

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a controversial tam in some ways but for

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lots of different reasons that there was

283
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the Rebecca issue but there's also been

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different issues with libertarians and

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different issues with various types of

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atheists and secular humanists which I

287
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don't understand I don't quite get all

288
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the differences of the going on there

289
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and he was pulling them all together and

290
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saying that yes they're allies but but

291
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don't come into the skeptical movement

292
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and try and change a skeptical movement

293
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yeah and he used it used a very nice

294
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analogy where you basically said he said

295
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I'm happy to invite you into my tent and

296
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I'm happy to accommodate your beliefs

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with in my tent if even if they're

298
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different from mine but don't come into

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my tent and declare you moving it and I

300
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thought that was that was very strong

301
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and look I I i can but my impression was

302
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that he was referring to yeah feminism

303
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is really important and the fighting

304
00:12:59,669 --> 00:12:57,850
sexism is very important I think that's

305
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the thing he was mostly referring to but

306
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I don't think it was the only thing he

307
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was referring to okay so I think that's

308
00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:03,850
very important I think there were other

309
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,649
political issues going on that I'm not

310
00:13:08,730 --> 00:13:07,360
aware yeah but I think that that's

311
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probably because that that's the primary

312
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one I think he was probably things that

313
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what I think it was trying to say is

314
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don't make that the core issue of The

315
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Skeptical movement because it isn't but

316
00:13:19,860 --> 00:13:18,189
he also referred to atheists of and

317
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secular humanist stuff in and

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rationalist and he basically said you

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know that there is a reason why I'm

320
00:13:28,019 --> 00:13:26,799
asked why I'm a capital skeptic and it's

321
00:13:30,059 --> 00:13:28,029
that's actually a term that I use quite

322
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a lot capital s skeptic as opposed to

323
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:32,439
just skeptic with a small s because I

324
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think that it's that that passion for

325
00:13:38,669 --> 00:13:36,160
the idea and all that and discuss the

326
00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:38,679
fact that skepticism is an idea in the

327
00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:41,199
process rather than a position and I

328
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completely agree with him and what he

329
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said was atheism for example said yeah

330
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well I'm an atheist I said I'm an

331
00:13:54,210 --> 00:13:52,839
atheist with an attitude again I could

332
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:54,220
be very easily agree with him on that

333
00:13:58,289 --> 00:13:55,600
i'm also an atheist with an attitude

334
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except i'm not an atheist in the sense

335
00:14:02,380 --> 00:13:59,870
that i'm not a capital a

336
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I do not believe I don't feel a need to

337
00:14:08,410 --> 00:14:05,750
be active around my atheism plus i think

338
00:14:10,630 --> 00:14:08,420
it's just one thing out of a lot of

339
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:10,640
things that skepticism has to offer and

340
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:13,970
that a skepticism encompasses atheism in

341
00:14:18,090 --> 00:14:15,890
a sense because what a tsa is is

342
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:18,100
skepticism about one specific thing

343
00:14:23,530 --> 00:14:20,170
whereas he believes that skepticism

344
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:23,540
should be about everything and i

345
00:14:27,730 --> 00:14:25,250
completely agree with him on that hmm

346
00:14:30,610 --> 00:14:27,740
and also he drew on I believe some of

347
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:30,620
his Southern Baptist upbringing or his

348
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:32,510
father he's had some religion in his

349
00:14:36,010 --> 00:14:34,730
life because the way he was or he's been

350
00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:36,020
to a couple of religious meetings that's

351
00:14:38,890 --> 00:14:37,310
for sure because the way he was firing

352
00:14:42,220 --> 00:14:38,900
it up towards the end and he really

353
00:14:43,420 --> 00:14:42,230
dumped it on bill maher too yeah well I

354
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:43,430
agree with him on that as well I think

355
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:45,529
Bill Maher I can't bear to watch Bill

356
00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:47,450
Maher because he's an atheist in he's

357
00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:49,310
very funny and especially when he talks

358
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:50,990
about religion it's obviously very funny

359
00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:52,610
to somebody who's in 80s you know like

360
00:14:56,890 --> 00:14:55,070
on our side but I but he's a crackpot

361
00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:56,900
he's a crackpot in every other way and I

362
00:15:00,190 --> 00:14:58,130
don't think that we should embrace

363
00:15:04,510 --> 00:15:00,200
somebody because he agrees with us on

364
00:15:06,579 --> 00:15:04,520
that sees narrow sliver of an idea to

365
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:06,589
say yes he's one of us one of us no I

366
00:15:10,060 --> 00:15:08,000
don't think he's one of us I don't

367
00:15:12,579 --> 00:15:10,070
consider went to consider him to be a

368
00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:12,589
role model for me or for anyone else

369
00:15:20,290 --> 00:15:17,720
that I that I talk to and I think he's

370
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:20,300
yeah he's a crackpot he's definitely not

371
00:15:23,860 --> 00:15:21,890
part of this too skeptical movement

372
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:23,870
despite being an atheist and I think

373
00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:25,670
Steve novella actually said that about

374
00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:27,500
him a long time ago in one of the

375
00:15:35,079 --> 00:15:31,720
podcasts he said that he he is in his an

376
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:35,089
atheist for the wrong reasons and you

377
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:38,240
know how you say about you say it's a

378
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:39,770
common saying that you can't reason

379
00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:42,170
somebody out of the position that they

380
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:43,790
didn't reason themselves into in the

381
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:46,880
first place and I am quite sure that

382
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:49,610
bill maher did not reason himself into

383
00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:51,770
atheism he did not think about the

384
00:15:56,260 --> 00:15:54,380
evidence for God and perhaps the

385
00:15:59,650 --> 00:15:56,270
evidence against god and dutton way that

386
00:16:02,170 --> 00:15:59,660
he just feels that it's you know that

387
00:16:04,390 --> 00:16:02,180
there is no God and similarly he feels

388
00:16:06,910 --> 00:16:04,400
that vaccines are dangerous and he feels

389
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:06,920
all kinds of other crackpots stuff so I

390
00:16:09,550 --> 00:16:08,480
don't care what he believes I don't care

391
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:09,560
if you agree you know what I actually

392
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:11,690
don't care if he agrees me on agrees me

393
00:16:14,910 --> 00:16:12,370
with me on

394
00:16:16,829 --> 00:16:14,920
everything if he agrees with me for the

395
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:16,839
wrong reasons then I is not part of my

396
00:16:23,220 --> 00:16:20,050
jersey the words of Jamie and Swiss is

397
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:23,230
not welcome in my tent now it's because

398
00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:25,450
because kepta scizzum is not a position

399
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,790
it is a process and if he doesn't follow

400
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:29,440
the process then he's not part of the

401
00:16:33,150 --> 00:16:31,210
movement I think this is part of the

402
00:16:34,740 --> 00:16:33,160
problem that the movement has is that

403
00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:34,750
getting across that it's part of a

404
00:16:37,470 --> 00:16:36,550
process because a lot of people don't

405
00:16:39,810 --> 00:16:37,480
want to take part in that process

406
00:16:41,970 --> 00:16:39,820
because it requires hard work or they

407
00:16:46,019 --> 00:16:41,980
perceive it's hard work it is hard work

408
00:16:48,180 --> 00:16:46,029
oh that's why I like it serious I don't

409
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:48,190
know many things in life that are really

410
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:53,770
fun really rewarding really give you

411
00:16:58,860 --> 00:16:56,320
something in the long term that are not

412
00:17:02,310 --> 00:16:58,870
hard work hmm which is the opposite of

413
00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:02,320
what we're bombarded with H time um yeah

414
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:04,990
but again you know it small wins I find

415
00:17:08,130 --> 00:17:06,370
some small little things you know you

416
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:08,140
have ice cream it's great and all that

417
00:17:12,419 --> 00:17:10,510
but would you live for ice cream I mean

418
00:17:16,590 --> 00:17:12,429
axwell maybe actually maybe that was

419
00:17:18,569 --> 00:17:16,600
wrong about example but the guy from ben

420
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:18,579
& jerry's actually probably died because

421
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:20,650
of ice cream than half of the mere no

422
00:17:27,179 --> 00:17:23,650
but my point is that anything really if

423
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:27,189
you want to do first okay maybe I should

424
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:30,370
probably say maybe not everybody needs a

425
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:32,650
cause in their life or something big to

426
00:17:38,730 --> 00:17:35,710
walk towards um and that's fine I

427
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:38,740
believe that for for me and for a lot of

428
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:41,679
people around me to have something that

429
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:43,330
they're passionate about something that

430
00:17:48,750 --> 00:17:45,370
they believe in and he doesn't have to

431
00:17:51,150 --> 00:17:48,760
be a big idea it can be family your

432
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:51,160
family could be just reading great books

433
00:17:57,390 --> 00:17:53,770
you know it doesn't have to be something

434
00:18:00,299 --> 00:17:57,400
like a big social cause okay but to have

435
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:00,309
something that you do that rewards you

436
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:03,250
not just in that very instant when you

437
00:18:07,950 --> 00:18:05,290
do something I think that's really

438
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:07,960
important I think that it's it's a

439
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:09,730
richer life you have a richer life if

440
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:12,190
you have some something like that in

441
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:14,080
your life where you look at this beyond

442
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:17,200
the immediate present and apart from

443
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:19,210
Jamie and swishes talk is it something

444
00:18:23,730 --> 00:18:20,890
that's enriched your enjoyment of the

445
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,740
skeptics movement here this weekend well

446
00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:25,840
you know being being in

447
00:18:30,419 --> 00:18:28,900
this kind of event it so it always makes

448
00:18:32,659 --> 00:18:30,429
me feel really good it's just in terms

449
00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:32,669
of meeting so many people and i've

450
00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:35,950
participated in the workshop and in arm

451
00:18:42,269 --> 00:18:39,760
and you know i gave a paper presentation

452
00:18:46,110 --> 00:18:42,279
this morning and you know what was your

453
00:18:47,850 --> 00:18:46,120
paper about and how was it received my

454
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,860
paper was about the whole ken harvey

455
00:18:51,899 --> 00:18:49,840
affair where you know he was sued and we

456
00:18:55,019 --> 00:18:51,909
helped him cover the costs of the

457
00:18:57,779 --> 00:18:55,029
lawsuit because the despite winning he

458
00:19:00,269 --> 00:18:57,789
was awarded costs by the company went

459
00:19:04,649 --> 00:19:00,279
bankrupt and did not pay him his legal

460
00:19:06,779 --> 00:19:04,659
costs so we organized a donation drive

461
00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:06,789
and lots of people donated so we were

462
00:19:09,570 --> 00:19:08,260
not the ones donating the money but we

463
00:19:12,690 --> 00:19:09,580
arranged the pledge drive and cover his

464
00:19:15,419 --> 00:19:12,700
costs so that was what the talk was

465
00:19:17,730 --> 00:19:15,429
about in essence the reaction to the

466
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:17,740
talk you see I had me stand on stage you

467
00:19:24,090 --> 00:19:22,570
hardly see the audience oh yeah but you

468
00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:24,100
know the lights in your eyes it's dark

469
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,500
out there maybe afterwards someone might

470
00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:28,000
have come up to or something so there's

471
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:31,870
two things first of all I heard the the

472
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:33,730
response from the audience and that

473
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:37,330
seemed to be good I mean I did they be I

474
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:40,210
expected obviously some applause at the

475
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:41,440
end but there were a couple of places

476
00:19:46,139 --> 00:19:43,840
along along the way where the

477
00:19:47,850 --> 00:19:46,149
achievements were applauded rather than

478
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:47,860
my talk and I thought that was really

479
00:19:54,659 --> 00:19:52,210
good but I've had since then probably I

480
00:19:57,269 --> 00:19:54,669
would say 10 or 12 people already

481
00:19:59,039 --> 00:19:57,279
approached me just to shake my hand and

482
00:20:01,110 --> 00:19:59,049
thanked me for both for the talk and

483
00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:01,120
fall for what we've done with Ken and

484
00:20:07,139 --> 00:20:05,289
you know what it's just this is it

485
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:07,149
that's enough for six months of hard

486
00:20:12,810 --> 00:20:09,250
work seriously it's just I'm having that

487
00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:12,820
appreciation knowing that people pay you

488
00:20:15,870 --> 00:20:14,470
know we don't do it for that okay we do

489
00:20:17,490 --> 00:20:15,880
it because we think it's important to

490
00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:17,500
help care no we it's important to fight

491
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:19,750
the anti-vaxxers and all that but you do

492
00:20:22,409 --> 00:20:21,250
need you do need that acknowledgement

493
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:22,419
anybody who says that they don't need

494
00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:24,610
that acknowledgement is lying and you

495
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:25,720
know there's some people we see who are

496
00:20:30,570 --> 00:20:27,490
more in the public eye and all that then

497
00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:30,580
me but and I'm happy usually happy to do

498
00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:33,190
things more in the background but I'd be

499
00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:35,049
lying if I would say that it's not you

500
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:37,720
know it's great it's it's fuel for for

501
00:20:40,270 --> 00:20:38,510
long

502
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:40,280
time do you think you sometimes feel a

503
00:20:44,170 --> 00:20:41,810
bit more isolated in Australia because

504
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:44,180
of our physical distance and you know

505
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:46,640
how the environment we're in there

506
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:48,530
they're like like scientifically at all

507
00:20:56,050 --> 00:20:53,050
no no we have great contacts with

508
00:20:57,940 --> 00:20:56,060
skeptics in the UK in the u.s. in

509
00:21:01,150 --> 00:20:57,950
particular but in other countries as

510
00:21:02,650 --> 00:21:01,160
well I think we know what we do well I

511
00:21:04,690 --> 00:21:02,660
certainly people have come to the table

512
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:04,700
and they seem to think that the

513
00:21:07,780 --> 00:21:06,110
Australians have more grassroots

514
00:21:10,090 --> 00:21:07,790
approach and we're doing things that

515
00:21:12,820 --> 00:21:10,100
many skeptics groups elsewhere in the

516
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:12,830
world aren't doing I think we have a

517
00:21:16,690 --> 00:21:15,110
good reputation in the skeptical

518
00:21:19,450 --> 00:21:16,700
movement as punching above our weight

519
00:21:21,010 --> 00:21:19,460
and getting things done and it's

520
00:21:23,290 --> 00:21:21,020
something that I don't know that it's

521
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:23,300
actually true that we do more perhaps we

522
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:25,610
just do things in a different way that

523
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:29,360
make has more impact or perhaps because

524
00:21:33,730 --> 00:21:31,910
they don't hear about things where we

525
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:33,740
fail but doesn't happen a lot but you

526
00:21:37,420 --> 00:21:35,360
know I'm surely sometimes we try to do

527
00:21:39,730 --> 00:21:37,430
things and we fail and and they don't

528
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:39,740
hear it here whether here they they see

529
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:42,110
both the failures and the successors I

530
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:43,910
think you know sometimes something

531
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,490
that's further away you tend to have a

532
00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:48,320
different view of it than the objective

533
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:51,620
view so it's quite possible that their

534
00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:53,330
view is a little bit skewed but you know

535
00:21:56,260 --> 00:21:54,590
what it doesn't really matter that's the

536
00:21:58,090 --> 00:21:56,270
reputation we have and it's a great

537
00:22:01,840 --> 00:21:58,100
reputation to have I'm very pleased with

538
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:01,850
that I think part of the perhaps problem

539
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:03,530
it's not a sort of huge problem but I

540
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:05,450
think too much credit is given to the

541
00:22:09,670 --> 00:22:06,890
organization whereas a lot of the

542
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:09,680
activities that done by individuals that

543
00:22:13,450 --> 00:22:11,210
are either affiliated with the

544
00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:13,460
organization or not and they could be

545
00:22:16,420 --> 00:22:15,260
supported by us they could be they could

546
00:22:18,340 --> 00:22:16,430
like us and all that but they're

547
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:18,350
actually doing their own thing ken

548
00:22:21,790 --> 00:22:20,090
MacLeod is obviously a prime example you

549
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:21,800
know he does a huge amount of work and

550
00:22:24,610 --> 00:22:23,210
he's a member of the skeptic Cesar

551
00:22:28,270 --> 00:22:24,620
subscribe to the magazine but he's not

552
00:22:29,950 --> 00:22:28,280
working on our behalf and he gets help

553
00:22:31,630 --> 00:22:29,960
from us from time to time but he's

554
00:22:34,540 --> 00:22:31,640
definitely not you know part of the

555
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:34,550
organization in any meaningful way and

556
00:22:40,510 --> 00:22:37,790
we you know and somebody looking from

557
00:22:42,550 --> 00:22:40,520
afar it looks like you know we're

558
00:22:44,380 --> 00:22:42,560
getting credit I think we're getting

559
00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:44,390
credit for his work because he seems to

560
00:22:47,950 --> 00:22:46,460
be working with us hmm and that Richard

561
00:22:49,390 --> 00:22:47,960
Saunders is going to be involved in a

562
00:22:50,890 --> 00:22:49,400
million dollar challenge at sky

563
00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:50,900
only later today I believe is that is

564
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:54,950
that true yes the Challenger actually

565
00:22:59,800 --> 00:22:56,720
approached Richard because of his work

566
00:23:01,120 --> 00:22:59,810
on the power balance bracelets so

567
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:01,130
despite the fact that the Challenger is

568
00:23:05,710 --> 00:23:03,890
actually in the US Richard is the one

569
00:23:08,530 --> 00:23:05,720
who was approached and it's a great it's

570
00:23:10,450 --> 00:23:08,540
a great item to test it says it's a

571
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:10,460
really good one a very brave of him to

572
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:13,130
come to the the J ref conference and

573
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:15,710
putting yeah but it happens at every

574
00:23:19,060 --> 00:23:18,110
time so it happened oh I'm not sure

575
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:19,070
every time but it's happened several

576
00:23:24,970 --> 00:23:20,960
times before where there was a public

577
00:23:29,340 --> 00:23:24,980
million dollar challenge because the the

578
00:23:31,570 --> 00:23:29,350
thing is that these people who come here

579
00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:31,580
believe that they can really do it

580
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:33,350
people who don't who don't really

581
00:23:37,810 --> 00:23:35,450
believe who know that what they're doing

582
00:23:40,150 --> 00:23:37,820
is a scam or whatever they won't be

583
00:23:43,210 --> 00:23:40,160
tested people who make money out of it

584
00:23:46,210 --> 00:23:43,220
generally won't be tested because they

585
00:23:47,890 --> 00:23:46,220
don't to be proven wrong whereas you

586
00:23:51,130 --> 00:23:47,900
know this is a guy who's quite clearly

587
00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:51,140
may be deluded if it doesn't work if it

588
00:23:56,020 --> 00:23:52,640
turns out that he doesn't work and i

589
00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:56,030
have a hunch on that but see it's a

590
00:24:00,040 --> 00:23:57,830
win-win because if it doesn't work it'll

591
00:24:02,290 --> 00:24:00,050
prove our well that science is ready if

592
00:24:03,730 --> 00:24:02,300
it if it for some reason does work that

593
00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:03,740
means we've discovered a new physical

594
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:05,750
property that could be at we're all in

595
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:07,130
for a Nobel Prize i know i'll be putting

596
00:24:11,140 --> 00:24:08,890
my hand up just for being in the room

597
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:11,150
it's absolutely true but I wouldn't hold

598
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:15,290
my breath and what we want our prime

599
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:16,370
minister used to say during last

600
00:24:20,650 --> 00:24:19,130
election campaign so moving forward what

601
00:24:21,910 --> 00:24:20,660
do you think will be happening over the

602
00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:21,920
next couple of months given the

603
00:24:28,510 --> 00:24:25,870
inspiration you've gotten out of time oh

604
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:28,520
if I'd you did too because you're also

605
00:24:31,630 --> 00:24:30,290
starting a new job so personally you've

606
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:31,640
got a very challenging a period of

607
00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:34,010
coming up yeah look I've been the

608
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:35,710
president now for just over three years

609
00:24:45,250 --> 00:24:41,090
started in tune of 2009 and we'll have

610
00:24:47,410 --> 00:24:45,260
our AGM in September and I don't know i

611
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:47,420
don't think i will be continuing past

612
00:24:53,490 --> 00:24:49,850
that point think three years is long

613
00:24:55,450 --> 00:24:53,500
enough so i will continue to be active

614
00:24:57,580 --> 00:24:55,460
within the committee and all that but

615
00:24:59,830 --> 00:24:57,590
probably not as president so we'll see i

616
00:25:01,670 --> 00:24:59,840
don't know yet as you mentioned I've

617
00:25:03,860 --> 00:25:01,680
started a new job

618
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:03,870
was it's very hard work it's so hard

619
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:05,400
actually this new job that I've worked

620
00:25:12,620 --> 00:25:07,650
monday and tuesday and then on Wednesday

621
00:25:14,660 --> 00:25:12,630
went to the u.s. to town oh that guy was

622
00:25:18,110 --> 00:25:14,670
here earlier in the week where's the new

623
00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:18,120
guy so so yeah obviously they knew about

624
00:25:23,690 --> 00:25:20,520
this trip in advance but but yeah but I

625
00:25:25,340 --> 00:25:23,700
wanna it's a it's a good it's a good

626
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:25,350
professional move for me and I want to

627
00:25:29,390 --> 00:25:27,210
make sure that he works for me I'm for

628
00:25:31,370 --> 00:25:29,400
long-term not just not just for a short

629
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:31,380
time so I want to dedicate myself to

630
00:25:34,580 --> 00:25:32,970
that you know it took different periods

631
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:34,590
in your life you want to spend more or

632
00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:38,130
less time on specific things and while

633
00:25:41,330 --> 00:25:39,960
I'm happy to continue to act to be

634
00:25:43,220 --> 00:25:41,340
active within the skeptical movement

635
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:43,230
I'll probably the specific things that

636
00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:45,570
will probably continue to do the role of

637
00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:48,390
president requires a significant amount

638
00:25:52,850 --> 00:25:50,910
of my time it's at a minimum we're

639
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:52,860
talking about 3-4 hours a week that's

640
00:25:58,400 --> 00:25:54,900
the bare minimum on very very quiet

641
00:26:00,800 --> 00:25:58,410
weeks and I i need those hours now

642
00:26:02,030 --> 00:26:00,810
perhaps for other things so i don't

643
00:26:04,970 --> 00:26:02,040
think i will be continued i haven't

644
00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:04,980
fully officially decided yet and you

645
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:07,260
know that the reality is that even if i

646
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:08,640
don't decide I mean it could be voted

647
00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:11,730
out but but my inclination that this

648
00:26:15,770 --> 00:26:13,980
stage is not to stand against oh I don't

649
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:15,780
know yes I don't know I again I'll

650
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:17,420
continue to be active within the

651
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:19,650
movement and within the committee so

652
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:22,410
I'll still be around look and I want to

653
00:26:25,940 --> 00:26:24,450
thank people in the movement and

654
00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:25,950
listeners to the skeptic zone for

655
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:27,900
putting in to get me here and I just

656
00:26:31,130 --> 00:26:29,910
hope I've given enough back I hope

657
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:31,140
there's enough interviews coming out

658
00:26:33,860 --> 00:26:32,400
here I mean I'm seeing you a couple of

659
00:26:35,420 --> 00:26:33,870
times but you've been doing special

660
00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:35,430
backroom skeptic stuff while you've been

661
00:26:38,780 --> 00:26:37,020
here I guess that's part of in my job

662
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:38,790
I've been I've being the distraction of

663
00:26:41,540 --> 00:26:40,290
the week to run else while you and

664
00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:41,550
Richard and rates you get on with some

665
00:26:47,090 --> 00:26:44,550
deals going down there yeah well I think

666
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:47,100
considering the fact that you know this

667
00:26:51,890 --> 00:26:49,890
is now today it's the 15th of July 2012

668
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:51,900
and because of the amount of interviews

669
00:26:58,550 --> 00:26:53,910
you did this is being played some time

670
00:27:00,680 --> 00:26:58,560
in 2014 it's because I'm flying back to

671
00:27:02,270 --> 00:27:00,690
Australia via soul probably you know I

672
00:27:03,770 --> 00:27:02,280
you know I probably won't get back there

673
00:27:06,410 --> 00:27:03,780
till then I'd say I'm gonna be in my

674
00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:06,420
sixties about how am I get back home is

675
00:27:10,450 --> 00:27:09,300
that a bad thing are you looking back to

676
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:10,460
get him back to work

677
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:16,390
thank you for time and and more choice

678
00:27:19,450 --> 00:27:17,690
you would put your final message to the

679
00:27:21,010 --> 00:27:19,460
people here like the people that haven't

680
00:27:22,510 --> 00:27:21,020
been to tan before people out there

681
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:22,520
listening to this going G know what I

682
00:27:26,050 --> 00:27:23,570
don't went on there how would you

683
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:26,060
describe it just briefly it's the

684
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:30,410
greatest social gathering of skeptics in

685
00:27:34,210 --> 00:27:32,510
the world and you know the great ox

686
00:27:36,250 --> 00:27:34,220
there were some really fantastic talks

687
00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:36,260
and panels and I've really enjoyed them

688
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:38,360
but in the end from my perspective the

689
00:27:45,070 --> 00:27:41,690
thing that does this that makes this

690
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:45,080
kind of conference into the amazing

691
00:27:48,190 --> 00:27:46,880
thing that it is and I'm you know it's

692
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:48,200
not because the amazing meeting it was

693
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:50,330
amazing even if it weren't called that

694
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:53,990
is the social interaction having so many

695
00:27:58,360 --> 00:27:56,090
skeptics in the room at the same time

696
00:28:00,010 --> 00:27:58,370
all talking to each other feeding off

697
00:28:02,980 --> 00:28:00,020
each other telling each other stories

698
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:02,990
and jokes and and drinking and eating

699
00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:06,170
and going to the pool and you just just

700
00:28:12,490 --> 00:28:09,350
hanging out with with people who we I

701
00:28:14,050 --> 00:28:12,500
would almost say that you feel if you

702
00:28:15,580 --> 00:28:14,060
just feel comfortable you know you can

703
00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:15,590
you know that these people understand

704
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:16,780
the kind of things that you talk about

705
00:28:22,420 --> 00:28:20,480
the challenges or the skeptical moment

706
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:22,430
are similar in different countries and

707
00:28:26,650 --> 00:28:24,410
to be able to share all of that is

708
00:28:28,030 --> 00:28:26,660
really fantastic it know it like you

709
00:28:29,770 --> 00:28:28,040
don't want to be with like minded people

710
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:29,780
all the time that would just be not good

711
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:31,850
for your personality but occasionally i

712
00:28:35,670 --> 00:28:33,770
can see everyone here it's good to be

713
00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:35,680
with people that are on the same page

714
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:37,910
absolutely yeah i completely agree with

715
00:28:43,740 --> 00:28:41,450
you you know what an echo chamber is the

716
00:28:47,020 --> 00:28:43,750
worst thing you can have for a skeptic

717
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:47,030
you do not want people who say yes to

718
00:28:49,450 --> 00:28:48,530
each other all the time but you know one

719
00:28:50,830 --> 00:28:49,460
of the good think one of the things I

720
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:50,840
really like about skeptical movement is

721
00:28:54,580 --> 00:28:52,490
that it's not it's never even in a

722
00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:54,590
meeting like this it's not an echo

723
00:28:58,270 --> 00:28:56,630
chamber it is you know there are

724
00:28:59,770 --> 00:28:58,280
disagreements people air then people

725
00:29:01,690 --> 00:28:59,780
actually talk about them openly and

726
00:29:02,980 --> 00:29:01,700
freely and it's it's not considered rude

727
00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:02,990
because that's part of being a skeptic

728
00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:04,940
you know and we see that all the time

729
00:29:07,930 --> 00:29:06,230
actually within that you like for

730
00:29:09,580 --> 00:29:07,940
example within the committee like I

731
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:09,590
can't count I mean I mean the committee

732
00:29:14,050 --> 00:29:11,690
now for about 10 years and I I can't I

733
00:29:16,570 --> 00:29:14,060
couldn't possibly count the number of

734
00:29:19,030 --> 00:29:16,580
times that we have really serious

735
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:19,040
disagreements and then we go and have

736
00:29:23,570 --> 00:29:21,410
drank together and work on things that

737
00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:23,580
we agree on it just be

738
00:29:27,740 --> 00:29:25,260
having a disagreement within the

739
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:27,750
skeptical movement is not an indictable

740
00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:29,490
offense it's it's part of being a

741
00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:32,580
skeptic and I find that very very good I

742
00:29:36,890 --> 00:29:34,320
think that's what it's all about well I

743
00:29:52,970 --> 00:29:36,900
ran let's go have a drink okay let's

744
00:29:58,980 --> 00:29:55,830
the skeptic magazine the journal from

745
00:30:01,169 --> 00:29:58,990
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

746
00:30:05,789 --> 00:30:01,179
the world's second oldest skeptical

747
00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:05,799
magazine visit w WC apx cambiare you and

748
00:30:12,690 --> 00:30:09,100
click the publication's league you can

749
00:30:16,019 --> 00:30:12,700
also find their over 30 years of back

750
00:30:37,460 --> 00:30:16,029
issues free to download the skeptic

751
00:30:42,029 --> 00:30:39,990
there's nothing like authentic noise

752
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:42,039
listeners and that dog barking in the

753
00:30:45,810 --> 00:30:43,450
background might give you a clue that

754
00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:45,820
we're in the middle of this park but

755
00:30:50,369 --> 00:30:47,230
we're in the middle of the park in the

756
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:50,379
middle of Sydney Hyde Park it's sort of

757
00:30:53,999 --> 00:30:52,210
just turning into rush hour there are

758
00:30:56,190 --> 00:30:54,009
buses going about taxis but it's a

759
00:30:58,649 --> 00:30:56,200
beautiful day it was a warm hot sunny

760
00:31:00,960 --> 00:30:58,659
day for this time of year I'm with Ben

761
00:31:02,879 --> 00:31:00,970
and Steve making all the way from one of

762
00:31:04,409 --> 00:31:02,889
my favorite cities in the world we're

763
00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:04,419
from Edinburgh she's jumping the gun

764
00:31:11,399 --> 00:31:08,470
there and as my listeners may well

765
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:11,409
remember I was very lucky i visited in

766
00:31:15,539 --> 00:31:14,049
bur earlier this year and in fact I

767
00:31:17,879 --> 00:31:15,549
spoke at your skeptics in the pub which

768
00:31:20,610 --> 00:31:17,889
was such a thrill wow did I enjoy that

769
00:31:22,769 --> 00:31:20,620
Ron Levin bro it was a great place so

770
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:22,779
first of all what brings you to the

771
00:31:28,540 --> 00:31:24,290
middle of Sydney

772
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:28,550
well I'm a researcher in stroke medicine

773
00:31:34,270 --> 00:31:31,760
and I was lucky enough to win a prize at

774
00:31:37,390 --> 00:31:34,280
the UK stroke from last year and the

775
00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:37,400
prize was to present at the Sydney

776
00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:40,460
australasian stroke for him 2012 which

777
00:31:45,010 --> 00:31:42,740
have in Sydney this year and we thought

778
00:31:46,450 --> 00:31:45,020
what if one of us gets a pain to get

779
00:31:48,370 --> 00:31:46,460
paid for the other one is better come

780
00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:48,380
for a holiday so that's exactly why we

781
00:31:53,860 --> 00:31:51,620
came here good thinking so absolutely so

782
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:53,870
we're here for a visit we are visiting

783
00:32:00,190 --> 00:31:56,720
Sydney and we're also taking opportunity

784
00:32:02,350 --> 00:32:00,200
to go up to collect cans and queenly

785
00:32:04,510 --> 00:32:02,360
good Oh beautiful yes I've stunningly

786
00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:04,520
beautiful place in the world absolutely

787
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:05,980
and I'm not getting paid for you

788
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:08,450
Queensland tourist board now we'll get

789
00:32:13,210 --> 00:32:11,210
to while what you're going to be doing

790
00:32:15,250 --> 00:32:13,220
here in Sydney for us tonight this very

791
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:15,260
night at the Sydney skeptics in the pub

792
00:32:20,980 --> 00:32:19,310
soon but just before we made our way to

793
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:20,990
this park we were having a little bit of

794
00:32:25,780 --> 00:32:22,370
a chat about all the wonderful things

795
00:32:29,260 --> 00:32:25,790
that the skeptics get up to in Edinburgh

796
00:32:32,170 --> 00:32:29,270
and I again I just wish I I could fly

797
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:32,180
there every other week it's just all the

798
00:32:35,710 --> 00:32:33,890
things you get up to that well we're

799
00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:35,720
very very fortunate with Edinburgh

800
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:38,870
because without Emirates it is the

801
00:32:43,390 --> 00:32:41,690
festival city we have the international

802
00:32:45,250 --> 00:32:43,400
festival we have the fringe which I

803
00:32:48,340 --> 00:32:45,260
think everyone very by thinks of

804
00:32:51,550 --> 00:32:48,350
Edinburgh for and we also have a silence

805
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:51,560
festival so as well as our monthly

806
00:32:56,620 --> 00:32:54,110
skeptics in the pub talks we also put on

807
00:32:59,320 --> 00:32:56,630
talks and events during the French so

808
00:33:02,200 --> 00:32:59,330
which is just finished it finished a run

809
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:02,210
through august and we had 21 talks we

810
00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:06,290
had 21 21 20 different talks by

811
00:33:13,210 --> 00:33:09,590
different people not the same talk 21

812
00:33:14,890 --> 00:33:13,220
time we also had cash price is the

813
00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:14,900
founder Edinburgh skeptics put on cash

814
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:16,940
price i had the pleasure of interviewing

815
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:17,980
a shoe

816
00:33:24,690 --> 00:33:21,730
yeah yeah so he did his psychic con man

817
00:33:26,580 --> 00:33:24,700
shows and how to talk to the dead yes

818
00:33:29,549 --> 00:33:26,590
and get them to talk back which is

819
00:33:33,630 --> 00:33:29,559
difficult bit and how to predict the

820
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:33,640
future and how to be a psychic on map

821
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:38,049
yet rich ash ash and he also did what

822
00:33:43,770 --> 00:33:40,510
about to walking towards that we did he

823
00:33:47,370 --> 00:33:43,780
did the ghost busted tour ghost busted

824
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:47,380
yes edinburgh trade on being the most

825
00:33:52,350 --> 00:33:49,690
haunted city in Europe or having the

826
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:52,360
most creative tourist industry depending

827
00:33:56,340 --> 00:33:53,890
on how you look at it and in a huge

828
00:33:58,530 --> 00:33:56,350
industry of ghost tours that take

829
00:34:00,510 --> 00:33:58,540
gullible people round dark and

830
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:00,520
supposedly haunted locations frighten

831
00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:02,799
them and tell get them to 10 they've had

832
00:34:08,490 --> 00:34:05,740
an experience and ash takes you around

833
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:08,500
the same locations and tells you the

834
00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:11,050
truth about the ghost which isn't as

835
00:34:16,919 --> 00:34:15,340
popular sadness about Scotland you sort

836
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:16,929
of cornering the market here on strange

837
00:34:22,740 --> 00:34:20,649
things I mean I you may know I do a show

838
00:34:25,169 --> 00:34:22,750
for schools for school kids and varying

839
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:25,179
ages and it never fails all the years

840
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:26,560
I've been doing this show no matter how

841
00:34:30,690 --> 00:34:28,510
young the kids are I say who's heard of

842
00:34:32,909 --> 00:34:30,700
the Loch Ness monster all the kids and

843
00:34:35,550 --> 00:34:32,919
after all these years it's just amazing

844
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:35,560
but one of our talks at the other thing

845
00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:40,690
was by John Saxton and he's actually he

846
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:43,119
trained as a zoologist photo his illness

847
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:44,800
Phyllis a zoologist but he's got a very

848
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:47,050
nice little sideline in research that he

849
00:34:53,310 --> 00:34:50,800
does for fun which is about Messi's

850
00:34:57,330 --> 00:34:53,320
about the Loch Ness monster and he's he

851
00:34:59,280 --> 00:34:57,340
looks at the sightings of the Loch Ness

852
00:35:02,280 --> 00:34:59,290
monster how many of them there have been

853
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:02,290
and how far away and so on so now the

854
00:35:07,170 --> 00:35:04,090
thing that was really nice about this

855
00:35:10,020 --> 00:35:07,180
for us putting on a dress skeptics and

856
00:35:13,050 --> 00:35:10,030
skeptics on the fringe was the Charles

857
00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:13,060
is managed to get himself sponsored he

858
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:16,420
sponsored you could say kind of by drug

859
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:17,650
company

860
00:35:24,810 --> 00:35:21,490
Oh big farmer um no cry chorus lorem

861
00:35:27,150 --> 00:35:24,820
yeah Craig Kraken rum I see which is

862
00:35:30,210 --> 00:35:27,160
very nice lung and we have emerged a

863
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:30,220
fairy tale yeah on the monster sea

864
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:32,710
monster was named that right in LA can

865
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:36,010
Kraken Kraken I think try it today hey

866
00:35:42,690 --> 00:35:40,690
Mike it something I did KRA que en or

867
00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:42,700
sounds good we're not paid by them no

868
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:44,940
but if it happened to send at the bottle

869
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:47,710
so we serve a Charles came to speak for

870
00:35:52,050 --> 00:35:50,800
us for skeptics on the fringe we had we

871
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,060
had a really we've just had a really

872
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:53,920
really really great festival what is it

873
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:55,570
about Edinburgh man when I was there I

874
00:35:59,310 --> 00:35:57,970
certainly the response i received that

875
00:36:00,570 --> 00:35:59,320
skeptics in the pub was great was a big

876
00:36:02,610 --> 00:36:00,580
turnout and i thought to myself this is

877
00:36:07,460 --> 00:36:02,620
a city that really likes interesting

878
00:36:10,860 --> 00:36:07,470
things you know it is there's a lot of

879
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:10,870
things going on we've got a really

880
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:13,210
active local humanists group who

881
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,760
sponsored something those really great

882
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:17,680
mentally generous and very very kind of

883
00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:20,170
us of those it may enable us to bring

884
00:36:24,590 --> 00:36:22,600
some much bigger names yeah we're very

885
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:24,600
grateful to the humanists for that um

886
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:26,890
what it is about any but I don't know

887
00:36:31,590 --> 00:36:29,200
it's it's it was this because it's

888
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:31,600
smallish city was this start of it when

889
00:36:35,820 --> 00:36:33,490
it was the city where the Enlightenment

890
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:35,830
tap started if you have to like people

891
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:40,240
and it's got a buena idea I've got a

892
00:36:44,340 --> 00:36:42,010
number of universities quite a small

893
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:44,350
city and there's a lot of people there

894
00:36:49,380 --> 00:36:46,090
who are interested in a lot of things

895
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:49,390
and a lot of people there who are

896
00:36:54,030 --> 00:36:51,370
curious and in many respects it is a

897
00:36:55,710 --> 00:36:54,040
capital city we do have we have on

898
00:37:00,510 --> 00:36:55,720
Scottish Parliament there will you do it

899
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:00,520
lovely p.m. so we we do have people who

900
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:02,050
might otherwise gravitate to other

901
00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:04,690
cities either stay in Edinburgh or

902
00:37:09,210 --> 00:37:07,300
gravitate to it over itself so they're

903
00:37:11,550 --> 00:37:09,220
there just is a lot going on and I think

904
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:11,560
I really do think that the fact that

905
00:37:15,180 --> 00:37:13,210
we've got the festival's they're really

906
00:37:17,809 --> 00:37:15,190
helps as well on the keepers and then

907
00:37:20,959 --> 00:37:17,819
tell me have they fixed princess 3w

908
00:37:23,059 --> 00:37:20,969
no still a mess SMS we still don't have

909
00:37:24,439 --> 00:37:23,069
any trans now as the folks are building

910
00:37:26,029 --> 00:37:24,449
trams and when I was there earlier in

911
00:37:28,430 --> 00:37:26,039
the year it was like a construction site

912
00:37:31,099 --> 00:37:28,440
was just awful and I thought well they

913
00:37:32,689 --> 00:37:31,109
must be nearly finished no but the trams

914
00:37:35,479 --> 00:37:32,699
have been going on for four years they

915
00:37:41,259 --> 00:37:35,489
are actually if you cited you're more

916
00:37:46,279 --> 00:37:44,049
that's very good I like that thank you

917
00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:46,289
remember that one folks it was like and

918
00:37:49,549 --> 00:37:47,880
they keep changing the closing down

919
00:37:51,289 --> 00:37:49,559
those without any warning if you drive

920
00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:51,299
longer if I doesn't work anymore how

921
00:37:56,539 --> 00:37:54,359
else can I get to now it was a pleasure

922
00:37:58,789 --> 00:37:56,549
as i said to visit any but despite the

923
00:38:02,809 --> 00:37:58,799
trams workings and not being finished

924
00:38:04,189 --> 00:38:02,819
and I really sincerely did enjoy getting

925
00:38:07,180 --> 00:38:04,199
my talk which was about general

926
00:38:10,489 --> 00:38:07,190
skepticism to skeptics in the pub as a

927
00:38:13,130 --> 00:38:10,499
local skateboarder goes by and which

928
00:38:15,469 --> 00:38:13,140
brings you to the topic of tonight

929
00:38:17,359 --> 00:38:15,479
because you're speaking at all skeptics

930
00:38:20,660 --> 00:38:17,369
in the pub guarantee he'll tell me all

931
00:38:24,229 --> 00:38:20,670
about that well we are doing a joint

932
00:38:26,089 --> 00:38:24,239
talk oh um alt Madsen alternative

933
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:26,099
medicine and entitled where's the harm

934
00:38:32,779 --> 00:38:29,729
and the reason for this is that save as

935
00:38:36,019 --> 00:38:32,789
a doctor knows well meet him about about

936
00:38:37,849 --> 00:38:36,029
medicine yes all right I hope so and I

937
00:38:42,620 --> 00:38:37,859
know rather worrying amount about alt

938
00:38:44,779 --> 00:38:42,630
because I I suffer from migraines and or

939
00:38:48,349 --> 00:38:44,789
join the club yeah and one of the things

940
00:38:50,059 --> 00:38:48,359
with migraines is that you a lot of

941
00:38:55,099 --> 00:38:50,069
plate people will say that they can

942
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:55,109
treat them or can help with them and

943
00:39:01,489 --> 00:38:57,599
over the years I've tried a short list

944
00:39:05,329 --> 00:39:01,499
of about 31 different things we have on

945
00:39:06,979 --> 00:39:05,339
our list really III only I'm just

946
00:39:09,529 --> 00:39:06,989
showing me the list now I look I don't

947
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:09,539
doubt it because as my listeners know

948
00:39:12,620 --> 00:39:11,130
who do unfortunately suffer from

949
00:39:14,209 --> 00:39:12,630
migraines when you're in the grip of

950
00:39:15,799 --> 00:39:14,219
wine it's like well I don't care what

951
00:39:17,509 --> 00:39:15,809
what are you going to get I just want

952
00:39:20,739 --> 00:39:17,519
this to stop you know it's debilitating

953
00:39:24,439 --> 00:39:20,749
and also I think a lot of the debater on

954
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:24,449
Ahmed can be very very polarized and you

955
00:39:27,710 --> 00:39:26,609
can it's very easy to think that people

956
00:39:28,820 --> 00:39:27,720
that are

957
00:39:31,940 --> 00:39:28,830
using alternative or complementary

958
00:39:33,710 --> 00:39:31,950
medicine are two thumb and it's also

959
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:33,720
very easy to think that the people that

960
00:39:38,990 --> 00:39:36,570
work in that area are deliberate

961
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,000
charlatans yes it's too black and white

962
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:41,760
yeah and my feeling very strong is it's

963
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:45,570
a lot more nuanced than that so we we

964
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:47,130
look at some of those things it's a fun

965
00:39:51,470 --> 00:39:48,960
tool yeah we look at the things where

966
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:51,480
you've tried and then we look at why

967
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:53,280
they may have seemed to work at the time

968
00:39:59,420 --> 00:39:56,250
and then we briefly look at what's the

969
00:40:01,099 --> 00:39:59,430
harm but she's usually fairly obvious I

970
00:40:03,740 --> 00:40:01,109
think most people in Australia be aware

971
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:03,750
of the Penelope Dingle okay I'm

972
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:05,609
certainly in certainly yes and the

973
00:40:10,820 --> 00:40:09,210
homeopathy yeah those terrible um so

974
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:10,830
it's even been have a domestic on

975
00:40:17,089 --> 00:40:14,730
stainless reliving our first few days 30

976
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:17,099
days which recursively saying but I've

977
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:18,690
tried this and it helped and I'm going

978
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:22,380
but no other and culminating is with

979
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:26,160
suggesting some effective so now the

980
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:27,690
migraines are under control with

981
00:40:35,170 --> 00:40:31,440
triptans and aspirin and beta blockers

982
00:40:37,070 --> 00:40:35,180
so I guess I'm lucky in a way because

983
00:40:40,910 --> 00:40:37,080
they're very common over-the-counter

984
00:40:44,780 --> 00:40:40,920
drug here paracetamol yeah that that

985
00:40:47,150 --> 00:40:44,790
usually at least nulla dumbs it down

986
00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:47,160
that's not the right turn turn hey thr

987
00:40:49,940 --> 00:40:48,630
takes the edge off and I can sort of

988
00:40:51,740 --> 00:40:49,950
operate it's still sort of hanging on

989
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:51,750
yeah but normally just have to wait

990
00:40:56,599 --> 00:40:53,760
clickers yeah i mean that's that's very

991
00:40:58,130 --> 00:40:56,609
much been my experience as well so your

992
00:41:00,020 --> 00:40:58,140
parakeet or doesn't work for you and you

993
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:00,030
have to take four novels know which is

994
00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:02,010
the thing that that's calling for me is

995
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:05,700
that a that the normal dose of aspirin

996
00:41:15,180 --> 00:41:11,609
is is 300 600 is it yeah 300 his job I'm

997
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:15,190
sure she knows yeah and uh

998
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:17,050
what are you know year dr. hey other

999
00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:18,490
lies that you should be taking note then

1000
00:41:22,410 --> 00:41:20,319
who the study showing 900 with actually

1001
00:41:23,819 --> 00:41:22,420
the most effective dates that my brain

1002
00:41:25,530 --> 00:41:23,829
so which I could have been taking all

1003
00:41:27,839 --> 00:41:25,540
the time 20 years I could have been

1004
00:41:29,339 --> 00:41:27,849
taking aspirin and didn't know well I'm

1005
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:29,349
sure there are migraines and there are

1006
00:41:32,190 --> 00:41:30,880
migraines I must be all individual beast

1007
00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:32,200
depending on the ponder on the

1008
00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:35,200
individual person yeah I think they

1009
00:41:41,550 --> 00:41:37,660
should be probably true and fair I'm

1010
00:41:45,630 --> 00:41:41,560
very very much of the opinion that a lot

1011
00:41:48,650 --> 00:41:45,640
of the topics that of interest of

1012
00:41:51,540 --> 00:41:48,660
skeptics are much more nuanced than we

1013
00:41:52,829 --> 00:41:51,550
give them credit for particularly when

1014
00:41:53,940 --> 00:41:52,839
we're in the company of other skeptics

1015
00:41:56,460 --> 00:41:53,950
because when we're in the company of

1016
00:41:59,520 --> 00:41:56,470
other skeptics we we can end up talking

1017
00:42:00,690 --> 00:41:59,530
in a shorthand along star selves yes one

1018
00:42:02,609 --> 00:42:00,700
of the things that I want to do with

1019
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:02,619
this talk is just to say well you know

1020
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:05,440
it's in the words of Ben Goldacre it's a

1021
00:42:08,849 --> 00:42:07,210
little bit more complicated than that I

1022
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:08,859
like that with that expression he's come

1023
00:42:14,010 --> 00:42:10,720
up yet and it's absolutely so true it's

1024
00:42:15,390 --> 00:42:14,020
so true and and indeed we were on our

1025
00:42:18,059 --> 00:42:15,400
stroll here to the park we were chatting

1026
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:18,069
about the media and I can tell you for

1027
00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:19,930
the media sake they need things to be

1028
00:42:23,819 --> 00:42:21,310
black and white quite a lot of the time

1029
00:42:25,140 --> 00:42:23,829
so when you introduce something like

1030
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:25,150
well it's a little bit more complicated

1031
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:26,890
than that there with them we're not

1032
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,710
interested are they ghosts yes I know

1033
00:42:35,730 --> 00:42:32,079
can you debunk it yes or no yeah sort of

1034
00:42:37,829 --> 00:42:35,740
attitude so yeah so that's really what

1035
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:37,839
we're trying to do with a talk boom and

1036
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:39,130
that's great and I notice you've been

1037
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:41,530
giving this talk in other locations yes

1038
00:42:45,690 --> 00:42:43,690
we're all a bit of a tour we've started

1039
00:42:47,130 --> 00:42:45,700
off in Cork skeptics of of skeptics in

1040
00:42:49,890 --> 00:42:47,140
the castle and they have an amazing

1041
00:42:52,170 --> 00:42:49,900
group there that with in July that was

1042
00:42:54,109 --> 00:42:52,180
in July and the Irish guys are really

1043
00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:54,119
good and really interesting because

1044
00:43:00,140 --> 00:42:57,760
they've I mean them obviously they've

1045
00:43:04,020 --> 00:43:00,150
got their own circumstances in Ireland

1046
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:04,030
with a very strong Catholic Church that

1047
00:43:11,970 --> 00:43:07,720
they're sort of slowly moving away from

1048
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:11,980
the we didn't give the talk in skeptics

1049
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:14,650
in the pub in Dublin mainly because

1050
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:16,690
skeptics in the pub in Dublin for a long

1051
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:19,930
time has been just skeptics drinking in

1052
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:23,710
the pub I'm sure which is great I me

1053
00:43:26,819 --> 00:43:24,880
that's awesome

1054
00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:26,829
so we've given it that we've obviously

1055
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:29,160
given it time group in Edinburgh yeah

1056
00:43:34,829 --> 00:43:32,650
and now here we are taking it around the

1057
00:43:36,829 --> 00:43:34,839
world yes we can have a big shout out to

1058
00:43:39,089 --> 00:43:36,839
our friends at the skipper corns podcast

1059
00:43:41,759 --> 00:43:39,099
absolutely absolutely it's a great

1060
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:41,769
podcast skipper course yes that's the

1061
00:43:49,890 --> 00:43:44,890
skeptic of course yeah and corn dog this

1062
00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:49,900
is jaime or possibly done though these

1063
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:51,670
colts get chicks a really great great

1064
00:43:58,319 --> 00:43:55,690
we've known comb who runs them for quite

1065
00:44:02,509 --> 00:43:58,329
a long time because we initially met him

1066
00:44:05,970 --> 00:44:02,519
on douglas adams the HD GT website in

1067
00:44:08,730 --> 00:44:05,980
1999 yes well so a long time ago if

1068
00:44:10,289 --> 00:44:08,740
other viable but for your skeptics

1069
00:44:13,019 --> 00:44:10,299
captain well now I've always but I've

1070
00:44:16,170 --> 00:44:13,029
always been critical in my thinking yes

1071
00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:16,180
just not effective they're doing the act

1072
00:44:19,950 --> 00:44:17,710
already folks that they're just they're

1073
00:44:21,630 --> 00:44:19,960
warming up as we speak what I'm really

1074
00:44:23,249 --> 00:44:21,640
looking forward to tonight store I'm

1075
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,259
sure all the people who come to Sydney

1076
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:25,359
skeptics in the pub are going to enjoy

1077
00:44:30,180 --> 00:44:27,730
it immensely are you going to take it

1078
00:44:32,490 --> 00:44:30,190
anywhere else maybe well anyone wanted

1079
00:44:35,519 --> 00:44:32,500
to invite herself yes absolutely yes

1080
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:35,529
definitely open for invitations I'm very

1081
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:37,210
happy obviously to do it anywhere in the

1082
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:40,690
UK and very happy whenever we go on our

1083
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:42,970
travels to try and find another skeptics

1084
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:44,650
group yes I haven't heard it haven't

1085
00:44:48,210 --> 00:44:46,210
seen it but I can sincerely recommend it

1086
00:44:50,519 --> 00:44:48,220
works if you're having a skeptics

1087
00:44:52,019 --> 00:44:50,529
convention or a conference I just look

1088
00:44:54,089 --> 00:44:52,029
at the the show notes for this episode

1089
00:44:56,759 --> 00:44:54,099
to find out more well Baron Steve what a

1090
00:44:59,700 --> 00:44:56,769
pleasure it is to see you here in in

1091
00:45:02,220 --> 00:44:59,710
sunny sunny Sydney beautiful day a

1092
00:45:05,249 --> 00:45:02,230
gorgeous day a huge climate shock for us

1093
00:45:07,289 --> 00:45:05,259
having come off of one of the longest

1094
00:45:11,069 --> 00:45:07,299
coldest wettest most horrible summers in

1095
00:45:12,839 --> 00:45:11,079
Edinburgh mmm to see sunshine yeah it's

1096
00:45:13,550 --> 00:45:12,849
great we had about a week of Sun shone

1097
00:45:17,330 --> 00:45:13,560
ended with

1098
00:45:20,420 --> 00:45:17,340
yeah yes week I actually I was probably

1099
00:45:22,730 --> 00:45:20,430
a day to be and that was in a crush yeah

1100
00:45:26,090 --> 00:45:22,740
may don't something have either of you

1101
00:45:28,010 --> 00:45:26,100
been to Loch Ness yes yes we have no but

1102
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:28,020
we didn't see the monster no you know

1103
00:45:35,150 --> 00:45:30,960
but nice run up further use the rum

1104
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:35,160
again then cry likes them okay thank you

1105
00:45:41,330 --> 00:45:37,650
once again and oh wow why don't we

1106
00:45:46,130 --> 00:45:41,340
slowly make our way to the pub hey thank

1107
00:45:47,810 --> 00:45:46,140
you very much well hey we've got a

1108
00:45:50,060 --> 00:45:47,820
Scottish visitor what's your name my

1109
00:45:52,220 --> 00:45:50,070
name is been makin and look I heard you

1110
00:45:54,050 --> 00:45:52,230
talk about leg waxing there and I

1111
00:45:55,550 --> 00:45:54,060
couldn't agree more they're just just

1112
00:45:57,380 --> 00:45:55,560
listens let me fill you in she was

1113
00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:57,390
talking about various different ways and

1114
00:46:00,830 --> 00:45:58,800
alternative treatments you've had and

1115
00:46:02,630 --> 00:46:00,840
you brought up leg waxing and look I've

1116
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:02,640
had the the back crack and sack myself

1117
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:05,130
and I've got to say you do get in a very

1118
00:46:11,450 --> 00:46:07,410
intimate relationship with your with

1119
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:11,460
your genital waxer don't you sir yes yes

1120
00:46:19,220 --> 00:46:16,170
you see it happens doesn't it indeed I

1121
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:19,230
do feel very strongly that leg waxes and

1122
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:23,520
any kind of waxes underappreciated in

1123
00:46:28,850 --> 00:46:25,740
terms of providing a therapeutic service

1124
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:28,860
and the therapeutic support because it

1125
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:30,450
is as you say such an intimate

1126
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:32,490
relationship and they need to distract

1127
00:46:39,950 --> 00:46:35,730
you from the pain so they they ask

1128
00:46:42,980 --> 00:46:39,960
caring kind considerations and it's the

1129
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:42,990
exact equivalent to doctors sort of say

1130
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:45,090
just a little prick with a needle bang

1131
00:46:49,550 --> 00:46:47,760
so there we go and what did you make

1132
00:46:50,990 --> 00:46:49,560
about crowd here tonight what kind of

1133
00:46:52,610 --> 00:46:51,000
people do we get along here is it a

1134
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:52,620
fairly rough crowd you think there are

1135
00:46:58,460 --> 00:46:56,130
rum drinkers late into the night and the

1136
00:47:01,850 --> 00:46:58,470
the skeptics right here I have to say

1137
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:01,860
I've been really lovely we we've done is

1138
00:47:08,090 --> 00:47:04,050
talk in coral reef dammit in Edinburgh

1139
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:08,100
and in Edinburgh it was we had much much

1140
00:47:12,530 --> 00:47:10,290
tougher set of questions yeah we've been

1141
00:47:14,780 --> 00:47:12,540
very welcome to being made very very

1142
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:14,790
friendly we've been fed we've been we've

1143
00:47:19,550 --> 00:47:17,250
been provided with with with drink and

1144
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:19,560
look I've been to the Edinburgh Festival

1145
00:47:24,050 --> 00:47:22,050
number of times and the rivalry between

1146
00:47:25,809 --> 00:47:24,060
Edinburgh and Glasgow is just amazing

1147
00:47:29,650 --> 00:47:25,819
but Glasgow they fight dirty

1148
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:29,660
they they will they do Tai Chi I mean

1149
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:33,529
they do well can you set it yeah no I i

1150
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:35,690
lived in class go for a while I really

1151
00:47:39,819 --> 00:47:37,609
like Glasgow City I'm not living in

1152
00:47:41,999 --> 00:47:39,829
Edinburgh and that's also great as you

1153
00:47:46,509 --> 00:47:42,009
can tell I'm English I'm not Scottish

1154
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:46,519
and are very very much like both cities

1155
00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:48,890
they both got amazing qualities about

1156
00:47:53,949 --> 00:47:50,209
them but they have it such a rivalry

1157
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:53,959
that they they do indeed and I'm way off

1158
00:47:57,039 --> 00:47:55,729
to hereafter and what would you like

1159
00:47:58,479 --> 00:47:57,049
you're skeptical journey to take you

1160
00:47:59,829 --> 00:47:58,489
next you're going around the world you

1161
00:48:01,209 --> 00:47:59,839
want to do a bit of Scandinavia think

1162
00:48:02,769 --> 00:48:01,219
the Arctic Circle where's your

1163
00:48:04,180 --> 00:48:02,779
skepticism man take your next well I

1164
00:48:05,469 --> 00:48:04,190
lived in Sweden for a while and

1165
00:48:08,229 --> 00:48:05,479
thoroughly enjoyed it they'll have

1166
00:48:10,539 --> 00:48:08,239
actually been above the Arctic Circle in

1167
00:48:12,099 --> 00:48:10,549
the in both summer and winter so that

1168
00:48:14,620 --> 00:48:12,109
was good but not particularly with a

1169
00:48:16,059 --> 00:48:14,630
skeptic journey in terms of a skeptic

1170
00:48:18,819 --> 00:48:16,069
journey where would I like to go next

1171
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:18,829
and while we're going up to Cannes and

1172
00:48:23,410 --> 00:48:21,410
we're going to Queensland and then we're

1173
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:23,420
going back to edinboro we will buckle

1174
00:48:27,189 --> 00:48:25,609
down for the winter and batten down the

1175
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:27,199
hatches all you can really do in

1176
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:28,910
Edinburgh in fact I must remind people

1177
00:48:32,949 --> 00:48:30,410
if you're drinking in Edinburgh in

1178
00:48:34,839 --> 00:48:32,959
winter don't fall asleep outside cuz

1179
00:48:37,779 --> 00:48:34,849
you'll die indeed and you there's no

1180
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:37,789
need to put ice and drinks because they

1181
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:39,650
will be that cold and I see you've got

1182
00:48:44,199 --> 00:48:42,049
some badges on a denim jacket very early

1183
00:48:46,660 --> 00:48:44,209
Bananarama style there now I can't see

1184
00:48:48,519 --> 00:48:46,670
any Duran Duran or classic Nouveau or

1185
00:48:50,049 --> 00:48:48,529
Vizag badgers there there's no new

1186
00:48:54,370 --> 00:48:50,059
romantic badges on your jacket at all

1187
00:48:57,759 --> 00:48:54,380
but i do have a sketch is impalas match

1188
00:49:01,599 --> 00:48:57,769
ah and i also have a badge for QED which

1189
00:49:04,959 --> 00:49:01,609
is the conference that was put on by

1190
00:49:07,329 --> 00:49:04,969
mercy skeptics and the skeptics in

1191
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:07,339
Manchester yeah and they had the hardest

1192
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:09,410
quiz show podcast to that mu Z skeptics

1193
00:49:16,689 --> 00:49:12,170
a quiz show podcast is really hard and

1194
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,699
they do they do indeed how can you

1195
00:49:20,499 --> 00:49:18,319
answer those questions well we look

1196
00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:20,509
forward to having you back again I we

1197
00:49:25,509 --> 00:49:22,640
very much look forward to being here we

1198
00:49:27,099 --> 00:49:25,519
have had such a great time and we have

1199
00:49:28,930 --> 00:49:27,109
such a warm welcome from Australian

1200
00:49:31,810 --> 00:49:28,940
skeptics Oh give my regards to Hadrian's

1201
00:49:34,180 --> 00:49:31,820
Wall I'm out of course

1202
00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:34,190
and now we've got a first timer hits

1203
00:49:38,140 --> 00:49:35,990
kept against in the publisher name my

1204
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:38,150
name is Mickel now what makes a merchant

1205
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:39,770
bank I want to come along to a skeptics

1206
00:49:43,210 --> 00:49:41,210
night because there's a fair bit of whoo

1207
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:43,220
whoo involved in merchant banking a lot

1208
00:49:46,780 --> 00:49:44,930
of holding on and praying at the market

1209
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:46,790
goes up or whatever well that's true i

1210
00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:50,090
think for me the biggest the thing that

1211
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:51,710
pisses me off really is when your work

1212
00:49:55,210 --> 00:49:53,570
in a bank as a lot of regulation the

1213
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:55,220
things you can't do you can shut down a

1214
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:57,290
bank if we sell people things that we

1215
00:50:04,030 --> 00:50:00,800
lied about but in like medicine you can

1216
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:04,040
you can make lots of claims and get away

1217
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:07,490
with it at least in fake medicine okay

1218
00:50:11,020 --> 00:50:09,200
and you heard a bit about alternative

1219
00:50:13,090 --> 00:50:11,030
medicine here what is the is that the

1220
00:50:16,180 --> 00:50:13,100
area of whew that interests you the most

1221
00:50:18,090 --> 00:50:16,190
is alternative medicine no I think it's

1222
00:50:21,100 --> 00:50:18,100
just that that's the area that gets me

1223
00:50:23,890 --> 00:50:21,110
annoyed more I think a lot of them are

1224
00:50:25,210 --> 00:50:23,900
fun like UFOs or goes that that's more

1225
00:50:28,450 --> 00:50:25,220
like funny thing that's the sort of

1226
00:50:30,820 --> 00:50:28,460
thing we all want to be true but if it

1227
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:30,830
isn't and how did you find out about it

1228
00:50:35,530 --> 00:50:32,960
here you skipping zone list now how did

1229
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:35,540
you find out about the whole scene ah

1230
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:38,240
when I came to Australia I started

1231
00:50:43,150 --> 00:50:39,890
searching for podcast and I found

1232
00:50:46,270 --> 00:50:43,160
scientific podcasts so like a lot of

1233
00:50:48,820 --> 00:50:46,280
other people I'd listened to st you

1234
00:50:51,010 --> 00:50:48,830
first and they talked about the skeptic

1235
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:51,020
zone and that's where i got into and i

1236
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:53,210
thought was like living in Sydney this

1237
00:50:59,800 --> 00:50:57,410
is a local podcast and this is a not my

1238
00:51:01,570 --> 00:50:59,810
local localist pub by the heat spike

1239
00:51:03,310 --> 00:51:01,580
closer yeah I will look we do have a

1240
00:51:04,930 --> 00:51:03,320
problem with the piezo it's like with it

1241
00:51:06,490 --> 00:51:04,940
was credibly at a set of the back didn't

1242
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:06,500
we for you know your see it was a really

1243
00:51:10,210 --> 00:51:09,050
good presentation though oh now now just

1244
00:51:11,950 --> 00:51:10,220
as someone who's come in the room for

1245
00:51:14,140 --> 00:51:11,960
the first time in seen all the skeptics

1246
00:51:16,060 --> 00:51:14,150
ear is there a certain type I mean

1247
00:51:18,460 --> 00:51:16,070
there's not as many beads as here as you

1248
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:18,470
expected was it no I just think it would

1249
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:22,690
be lots of enemy t-shirts and opiates

1250
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:25,010
but the periodic table on my t-shirt

1251
00:51:30,250 --> 00:51:27,110
what a small so exciting ski t-shirt

1252
00:51:32,620 --> 00:51:30,260
yeah that's perfect I know dude have you

1253
00:51:34,420 --> 00:51:32,630
into any other skeptics podcasts what

1254
00:51:36,070 --> 00:51:34,430
else have you discovered you said the

1255
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:36,080
skeptics guard the universe skeptic zone

1256
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:38,090
in the monster talk what about the ones

1257
00:51:40,940 --> 00:51:39,410
that are the other side like mysterious

1258
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:40,950
universe that's all

1259
00:51:44,180 --> 00:51:42,510
I know I know that would be the right

1260
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:44,190
thing to do by having got the patient's

1261
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:47,760
so I stay with the site the scientific

1262
00:51:54,050 --> 00:51:49,890
based ones of a the medicine ones like

1263
00:51:55,700 --> 00:51:54,060
quite cast okay Craig cast is great yeah

1264
00:51:58,579 --> 00:51:55,710
I particularly when he's out on his

1265
00:52:00,500 --> 00:51:58,589
front porch Nick knew his dog barking no

1266
00:52:02,510 --> 00:52:00,510
I really like his podcast as he's I very

1267
00:52:04,819 --> 00:52:02,520
well researched as well that's mark

1268
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:04,829
Crispin isn't it yeah yeah yeah oh look

1269
00:52:07,700 --> 00:52:06,089
thanks for coming along I hope you can

1270
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:07,710
see with another skeptics meeting in the

1271
00:52:20,660 --> 00:52:18,510
near future oh definitely I'm Eugenie

1272
00:52:22,970 --> 00:52:20,670
Scott executive director of the National

1273
00:52:25,849 --> 00:52:22,980
Center for Science Education in oakland

1274
00:52:27,710 --> 00:52:25,859
california we defend and support the

1275
00:52:29,780 --> 00:52:27,720
teaching of evolution and climate change

1276
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:29,790
when it comes under attack for religious

1277
00:52:34,550 --> 00:52:32,130
and political reasons we help teachers

1278
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:34,560
parents school boards and other citizens

1279
00:52:40,700 --> 00:52:37,200
defend good science in the schools come

1280
00:52:43,310 --> 00:52:40,710
visit us at NCSE calm and on youtube and

1281
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,320
facebook and let us know if science

1282
00:52:58,930 --> 00:52:45,119
comes under attack in your community

1283
00:53:03,859 --> 00:53:01,370
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1284
00:53:06,109 --> 00:53:03,869
zone and a big thank you a big thank you

1285
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:06,119
to Iran's together who as you heard is

1286
00:53:09,559 --> 00:53:08,010
stepping down as president of the

1287
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:09,569
Australian skeptics that's the New South

1288
00:53:13,010 --> 00:53:11,609
Wales Australia pics in New South Wales

1289
00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:13,020
because there are the Australian

1290
00:53:18,859 --> 00:53:15,150
skeptics groups around the country this

1291
00:53:20,809 --> 00:53:18,869
is the new south wales one ah what a

1292
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:20,819
great job he's done over the last three

1293
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:23,609
or four years introduced many good

1294
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:26,609
initiatives and has been helping us

1295
00:53:32,660 --> 00:53:30,210
fight the armies of darkness now who

1296
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:32,670
said the armies of darkness was it Isaac

1297
00:53:36,170 --> 00:53:34,770
Asimov or something like that that's

1298
00:53:38,829 --> 00:53:36,180
what I like doing folks that's what the

1299
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:38,839
Australian skeptics like doing is like

1300
00:53:43,609 --> 00:53:41,910
fighting the baddies or is our friends

1301
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:43,619
from the Merseyside skeptics put it so

1302
00:53:49,579 --> 00:53:47,930
well consumer protection I like that

1303
00:53:51,620 --> 00:53:49,589
don't know if you could hear in the

1304
00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:51,630
background but that winds picking up a

1305
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:53,609
run outside and batten down the hatches

1306
00:53:58,670 --> 00:53:56,130
for next week's show and coming up on

1307
00:54:01,910 --> 00:53:58,680
next week's show maybe i will have those

1308
00:54:05,059 --> 00:54:01,920
interviews with ben Redford and brian

1309
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:05,069
dunning until then thank you once again

1310
00:54:09,140 --> 00:54:07,410
for listening and thank you to those

1311
00:54:12,349 --> 00:54:09,150
people who chip in with a dollar a week

1312
00:54:13,970 --> 00:54:12,359
helps keep the show going no joke it

1313
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:13,980
really does help to keep the show going

1314
00:54:19,460 --> 00:54:16,319
in fact I'm using some of that money

1315
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:19,470
right now I'm about to purchase video

1316
00:54:23,539 --> 00:54:21,680
editing software to help me make the

1317
00:54:27,890 --> 00:54:23,549
vaccination chronicles this ongoing

1318
00:54:29,539 --> 00:54:27,900
project I hope I hope that's going to be

1319
00:54:31,130 --> 00:54:29,549
finished in a couple of months that

1320
00:54:33,740 --> 00:54:31,140
should just about see it out i'm filming

1321
00:54:35,870 --> 00:54:33,750
more about that tomorrow in fact now i

1322
00:54:38,210 --> 00:54:35,880
can't afford the top line video editing

1323
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:38,220
software cross over a thousand dollars

1324
00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:39,599
never mind but i am getting something

1325
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:42,089
that's quite good can now let me do some

1326
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:44,400
high definition work and i'm looking

1327
00:54:49,849 --> 00:54:47,130
forward to that so thank you for those

1328
00:54:51,730 --> 00:54:49,859
people who do contribute and until next

1329
00:54:56,570 --> 00:54:51,740
week's show this is Richard Saunders

1330
00:55:03,960 --> 00:54:58,980
you've been listening to the skeptic

1331
00:55:07,740 --> 00:55:03,970
zone visit her website at www skeptics